The CIRS Group Podcast

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Is mold colonization the same as CIRS? Could what looks like a fungal infection actually be something else entirely? In this episode, Barbara is joined by Dr. Lacey Venanzi and Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres to break down the difference between mold/fungal colonization and chronic inflammatory response syndrome (CIRS), explore the surprisingly important role of actinobacteria, and walk through practical, affordable treatment strategies: from pharmaceutical antifungals to botanicals and nasal rinsing. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro01:19 Meet the guests: Dr. Lacey Venanzi & Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres02:25 What is mold or fungal colonization?05:01 Is fungal overgrowth a root cause or a downstream effect?06:08 CIRS vs. fungal colonization: Two distinct diagnoses07:45 Symptoms of fungal colonization (skin, gut, sinuses, cravings)10:56 Pharmaceutical antifungals and herbal antifungals15:30 Risks of using antifungals in CIRS patients17:25 Why some patients improve on antifungals19:55 Why timing matters: get out of exposure first22:25 Actinobacteria: the overlooked player in CIRS24:19 How actinobacteria mimics fungal infections26:32 Testing: options, limitations & what to look for28:15 Key botanical treatments: Horopito, thyme, clove, eucalyptus & tea tree29:00 Affordable testing options for patients32:20 Safe steps patients can take (Horopito)32:49 Dilute the bacteria, lower the burden: cleaning and motility33:56 Probiotics & prebiotics for fungal/actino burden35:36 Topical treatment: Horopito Lotion37:05 Nasal treatment: saline & baby shampoo technique39:00 Barbara's saline rinse tips & real-world experience44:03 Why baby shampoo works (surfactants explained)45:11 Horopito cream for nasal & skin use47:10 Coherence DX and additional resources
Check out Dr. Lacey and Dr. Christian's new company Coherence DX! https://www.coherencedx.com/YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@CoherenceDXDr. Lacey's website: https://www.drlacey.org/Dr. Christian's website: https://www.cirslab.com/
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Our Actinos Episode: https://youtu.be/yf9EoTbyAEo?si=nZIZAAlPlBgnObfIOur Actinos Cleaning episode: https://youtu.be/2rCXhUP6dbY?si=TRx356TkQBm1BBJnOur first interview with Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=8tHFQCKqrLxiFESqOur latest interview with Dr. Christian: https://youtu.be/Lc_LfUeiYTM?si=6CFLE6w71gtSqStjCSA (comprehensive stool analysis) from ParasiteTesting.com: https://www.parasitetesting.com/CSA?srsltid=AfmBOor_itSEGDFWmeorkB2spnrFXO48-f07lwE7G8V8Hc9NxB4Y92AJCheap gut test: https://www.ombrelab.com/products/ombre-gut-health-test?selling_plan=2189295771More comprehensive gut test: https://www.tinyhealth.com/adult-testSinusKey nose test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskeyHoropito capsules:https://kolorex.com/collections/gut-care/products/candia-balance-gut-care-60Dr. Lacey's favorite probiotics:BioGaia: https://a.co/d/0cQZgJhwFlorastor: https://a.co/d/09oFxiLsSun Fiber: https://a.co/d/0hkdbUZhHoropito topical cream (the gentlest option): https://kolorex.com/products/vaginal-care-creamNeti Pot Barbara uses: https://a.co/d/08DKajTTNasal swabs Barbara uses: https://a.co/d/0fgglU5fFragrance free Baby Shampoo: https://www.target.com/p/johnson-39-s-sensitive-care-baby-2-in-1-body-wash-38-shampoo-lightly-scented-13-5-fl-oz/-/A-87442350#lnk=sametab
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Jacie and Barbara cover Phase Two (part two of five) of the Shoemaker Protocol for CIRS, focusing on foundational steps before starting binders: 
Lipid replacement therapy (primarily fish oil) to lower inflammation and help prevent common binder side effects like fatigue, constipation, and overall dryness, with Shoemaker-recommended omega-3 dosing (EPA 2,400 mg and DHA 1,800 mg daily) and cautions about blood-thinning; 
Limbic retraining to address errant threat signals from chronic illness, with nuance that intensive programs can be too difficult early on and may work better once out of exposure and/or on binders, while also warning against symptom suppression without addressing root causes; 
And the critical priority of getting out of exposure through testing (dust tests for mold, endotoxins, and actinos), remediation or moving, and exploring hidden, internal exposures that can cause plateaus or backslides in your health. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode, all about Phase Three, removing the toxic burden!
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Phase Two of the Shoemaker Protocol01:25 Why this foundational phase matters02:54 What is Lipid Replacement? and why is it important?06:17 Fish Oil / lipid dosing tips08:04 Limbic Retraining explained10:51 When Limbic Retraining backfires14:23 Hyperreactivity Catch-2218:25 Get out of exposure20:42 Hidden exposures and healing stalls22:27 Key takeaways and next phase24:08 Wrap up and resources
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Check out these episodes mentioned in this episode:Interview with Michael Schrantz about remediation: https://youtu.be/_BEwFVdpRcY?si=mzNeGslwGjaYhWqiInterview with Bill Weber about testing your home: https://youtu.be/RlKjTqVAeNU?si=Eymfvcdk4G6kzylVInterview with Kendra Seymour on choosing a remediator or IEP: https://youtu.be/zmt9e42LLac?si=cTTvunobvEt8YL_nDust testing 101: https://youtu.be/nRrZs7xbXcc?si=55oXFRCV5kO_p0JDEndotoxin episode: https://youtu.be/O0iKndNzfYA?si=X-iX1NoRO2U7U-QVActinos episode part one: https://youtu.be/yf9EoTbyAEo?si=d2KUSzNpX2cs0DKEand Part two: https://youtu.be/2rCXhUP6dbY?si=wDHiSy58Vw5fZ5fa
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Uncover the truth behind chronic illnesses that are often misdiagnosed for years. If you’ve been told your symptoms are anxiety, IBS, or autoimmune, this episode explores a groundbreaking approach that could change everything. Learn how the Shoemaker Protocol, backed by clinical research, helps identify and treat CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) caused by biotoxin exposure like mold.
In this episode, Barbara and Jacie walk through the first phase of the Shoemaker Protocol: determining whether CIRS is the root cause of your symptoms. You’ll learn how to recognize key symptom patterns, use the validated VCS (Visual Contrast Sensitivity) test, and identify common exposure sources such as water-damaged buildings and tick bites.
What you’ll learn:• The 35 symptom clusters linked to CIRS and how to assess your own• How the VCS test can be an early screening tool• Common exposure triggers that are often overlooked• The role of genetics and why pattern recognition matters• The first steps to begin a clinically validated path to recovery
CIRS can create widespread disruption in the body, from immune dysfunction to neurological symptoms, and is frequently mistaken for other conditions. This episode helps you connect the dots so you can move toward targeted, effective healing.
Whether you’re just starting your health journey or searching for answers after years of confusion, this is part one of a five-part series designed to bring clarity, direction, and hope.
Explore more resources and support at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Intro: an answer for healing01:35 - Why we're covering the five phases of the Shoemaker Protocol02:53 - What is CIRS?04:09 - Common misdiagnoses05:25 - Understanding CIRS Symptoms08:23 - Four Pillars of CIRS Diagnosis: First, Symptom Clusters09:00 - Second: Visual Contrast Sensitivity Test12:48 - Third: Exposure History and Its Importance16:25 - Fourth: Blood Work and Genetic Testing19:20 - What CIRS is Not20:30 - Next Steps for Diagnosis22:15 - Personal Experiences and Hope for Healing24:00 - Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Jacie and Barbara discuss chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), emphasizing it as a real, multisystem illness rather than “just being tired,” and describe hallmark symptoms like post-exertional malaise (PEM), unrefreshing sleep, brain fog/word-finding issues, orthostatic intolerance, sensory sensitivity, pain, headaches, and the push-crash cycle. They explain how ME/CFS is often hard to diagnose due to lack of a single definitive test, the use of exclusionary testing and symptom criteria, and how cardiopulmonary exercise testing can objectively demonstrate impaired recovery and reduced oxygen utilization, which is useful for disability or legal documentation. They argue the diagnosis is a label, not a root cause, and propose chronic inflammatory response syndrome (CIRS) from biotoxin exposure (often water-damaged buildings/mold) as a potential driver, citing Dr. Ming Dooley’s review comparing ME/CFS research to CIRS treatment outcomes. They outline next steps: assess exposure history and symptom patterns, take symptom clusters and the VCS test, find a CIRS-literate practitioner, address current environments before protocols, and explore resources and their community membership. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro to Chronic Fatigue / medical disclaimer02:30 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is real, let's ask WHY04:26 What is ME/CFS?06:40 The CFS lived experience09:09 Getting a ME/CFS diagnosis11:05 Labels vs root cause12:08 What is actually happening when you have ME/CFS13:01 How CIRS may cause ME/CFS: published research backed15:29 Why doctors miss CIRS17:14 Next steps if you want to seek treatment20:10 Testing and find a practitioner that is Shoemaker Certified21:04 Resources
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:Ming Dooley's published research connecting CFS and CIRS:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40806417/https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11623837/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41265402/VCS test and symptom questions for CIRS: https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screening
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
In this episode, Barbara and Jacie discuss how CIRS patients can tell when they’re ready to move to the next step of the Shoemaker Protocol or “graduate,." As always, healing is gradual and should be guided by a CIRS-literate practitioner. They recommend tracking symptoms over time and checking three key questions: whether symptoms are improving, whether labs support improvement, and whether ongoing exposure is still occurring. The Shoemaker Protocol can be divided into three phases: (1) getting out of exposure by identifying and removing biotoxins, (2) clearing biotoxins with binders like cholestyramine (often causing temporary fatigue/constipation) and treating MARCoNS; and (3) repairing immune and hormonal dysfunction with supportive therapies, diet, and lifestyle supports. They also cover what “graduation” means, and common side quests if stalled, including Lyme, gut issues, dental problems, microbiome disruptions, spike protein, and autoimmune-related damage. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Timestamps00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:18 The benefits of symptom tracking03:16 The Shoemaker Protocol in three phases04:15 Phase One: get out of exposure06:13 When you can graduate to phase two09:02 Phase Two: clear the biotoxins (take binders)11:12 MARCoNs treatment12:20 Phase Three: repair and regulate15:03 Fix your brain with VIP Spray18:51 What "graduation" actually means: Life after CIRS20:19 When you stall, check for exposure21:36 Check for Co-infections, co-morbidities, other side quests25:26 Final takeaways
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Our Neuroquant episode: https://youtu.be/Lc_LfUeiYTM?si=DNbUj0nSdaXFGIqrOur interview with Jenny Johnson, about Life After CIRS: https://youtu.be/-c_bWUjP_uI?si=3hCbQ_CIkBbXvtTa
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
In their 150th The CIRS Group podcast episode(!!), Jacie and Barbara share practical guidance for reducing actinos in the home, emphasizing that consistent removal matters because a CIRS patient can react whether actinos are dead or alive. This is NOT medical advice: Actinos guidance is leading-edge in the CIRS space, but they share what has worked for them and members of The CIRS Group.  For skin, they discuss Defense soap, lava soap, Selsun Blue, Lume acidifying wash, and Johnson’s Baby Shampoo (noting dryness/irritation tradeoffs), plus probiotic lotion for localized issues. For laundry, they recommend washing clothing after one wear, and frequently washing bedding, pillows, and towels. For the home, they advise using a sealed HEPA vacuum broadly (walls, furniture, mattress, woven items), dry and damp dusting (including walls with a wet Swiffer), and using masks. If you feel overwhelmed, try breaking cleaning into manageable chunks, and consider help from cleaners, friends, or family. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 150th Episode Kickoff01:18 Intro and disclaimer02:25 Why aren't you in The CIRS Group?04:10 Why consistent cleaning is important05:18 Human derived actino tests and strategies06:57 Skin/hair washing options11:50 Laundry washing strategies15:42 Home cleaning strategy (small particle cleaning or SPC)16:49 Vacuuming and wet wiping / dry wiping21:36 Making it sustainable25:34 Wrap Up and Next Steps
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Book a consultation with Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres: https://consult-christian.as.me/schedule/a89e8b00/appointment/Book a consultation with Dr. Andrea Jordheim: https://mytransformationwellness.com/about/SinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskeyBook a consultation with Dr. Lacey: https://www.drlacey.org/Skin Actino test: https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/actino-skin/?v=7516fd43adaaLarry Schwartz interview on Actinos: https://www.betterhealthguy.com/episode171Jenny’s actinos episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUIvXrWYZOQ&pp=ygUUamVubnkgam9obnNvbiBhY3Rpbm8%3DISEAI SPC protocol https://iseai.org/small-particle-cleaning-guide-for-people-with-mold-related-illness/
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

To check out the actinos cleaning protocol class Barbara just recorded, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Barbara and Jacie discuss actinos (actinobacteria) in the context of CIRS and how they can drive illness. Notably, Genie Test research suggests 42% of CIRS patients react to Actinos versus 30% to endotoxins and about 10% to mycotoxins. Today's episode covers testing strategies, and if human-derived actino scores are high, they suggest testing your skin with test swabs behind the ear after showering, with a goal of under 10,000 per species and good diversity. They also discuss cyanobacteria and water testing, soil-related sources, sinus microbiome testing (SinusKey), gut testing, and highlight CIRSLab’s Christian Navarro Torres and Dr. Andrea Jordheim's important research in this field. SUBSCRIBE because part two will cover cleaning and removal! To check out the actinos cleaning protocol class Barbara just recorded, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:39 What are actinos?02:37 Types of actinos and where they come from06:13 Why actinos matter in CIRS07:50 How to test for actinos10:05 How and why to test your skin11:43 Testing vs just cleaning12:50 Disclaimer about actinos14:18 How to deal with Cyanobacteria and water sources17:25 How to deal with soil derived actinos20:40 Human sources of actinos: skin, sinus, and gut25:31 Part Two Teaser and Resources
To check out the actinos cleaning protocol class Barbara just recorded, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
HELPFUL LINKS:Actinos test for your home: https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/actino-test/Actinos test for your skin: https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/actino-skin/SinusKey for a nasal test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskeyCheck out our interview with Dr. Lacey to learn more about gut testing: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=etUt-z5YSl3-hOLsDr. Christian Navarro-Torres' website: https://www.cirslab.com/Dr. Andrea Jordheim's website: https://mytransformationwellness.com/about/
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Jacie and Barbara return from an unexpected break, caused by Jacie's autoimmune flare after moving into an apartment with a high actino score. Today's episode outlines what to do during a CIRS “flare” or symptom backslide. Some tips covered inclide: defining early warning signs, using objective tracking tools like the VCS test, symptom logs, and wearables, and scheduling periodic bloodwork (including MSH, MMP-9, and TGF beta-1). Their step-by-step approach emphasizes testing the environment (HERTSMI-2 or ERMI, plus endotoxins and actino), getting on waitlists for CIRS providers and Indoor Environmental Professionals, and addressing root cause through remediation, cleaning, and restarting the protocol. They'll also cover how to reduce inflammation with supportive measures while waiting for care. Once healed from CIRS, many patients build long-term resilience by investigating “side quests” like co-infections and keeping a clean environment. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Timestamps:00:00 Intro: Back from break01:20 Disclaimer02:05 What is a health or autoimmune flare?03:03 How to monitor your health at home05:11 First step to recover from a flare: testing06:26 Environment testing options: Mold, Actinos, Endos07:49 VCS and bloodwork testing09:30 Schedule with an Indoor Environmental Professional and/or Doctor12:05 Treat root cause, but reduce inflammation however you can14:36 Work on nutrition, supplements, and other therapies16:53 Cleaning and how Jacie made quick progress18:01 Mindset: You are not at zero19:22 Build resilience long term, and attack co-infections21:17 Take care of yourself
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
HELPFUL LINKS:Our episode on testing your environment: https://youtu.be/nRrZs7xbXcc?si=k3zDvBWc_wio7IduOur episode that covers the VCS test/CIRS diagnosis: https://youtu.be/CCT2iJrbI7w?si=ttQT3rZFsgG2fOduOur episode on CIRS Bloodwork: https://youtu.be/XMtbxLLZzaU?si=jn_lTvXeHBGKEpVlVCS Test: https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screeningEnvironment Testing: https://lisbiotech.com/home/services-2/
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Jacie and Barbara discuss why unlimited money and access to extreme treatments doesn’t usually lead to better or faster healing. Wealth can remove “financial friction,” which inadvertently encourages fear-based, urgent, and uncoordinated decision-making, including fringe or unregulated therapies, constant protocol switching, and symptom-focused biohacking without tracking or testing. They emphasize the importance of strategy, sequencing, and objective measurement, highlighting the Shoemaker Protocol as a foundational, ordered approach for CIRS treatment. They'll also cover how you can evaluate treatments and doctors, and why discernment and thoughtful pacing often matter more than money. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Timestamps00:00 Intro, let's talk about money03:33 Does more money mean worse health decisions?04:22 Acknowledging the difficulty of healing without income06:04 Sick and Wealthy Psychology Trap08:51 Real world example of wealthy patient acting recklessly12:40 Track results, not hype14:31 There's not one miracle cure for chronic illness16:00 Timing matters17:51 Middle class advantages19:35 How to determine the best treatment and doctor for you22:40 What makes a great doctor25:09 Discernment can be greater than money25:52 Wrap up and encouragement
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Watch our first reaction video to Chris Williamson's health updates: https://youtu.be/5uTs5B6ySHQ?si=qLdsrLLbzmWkiOWK
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
In this week's episode, Barbara and Jacie explain why people with Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome (CIRS) or mold illness should test their home (and workplaces) and when. They'll dig into why multiple tests are better to understand the full picture rather than relying on a single score, and recommend working with an IEP (Indoor Environmental Professional) for interpretation and creating an action plan. They cover MSQPCR dust testing (ERMI/HERTSMI-2), best sampling practices, testing per room/floor, separate testing for basements/crawl spaces/attics, and using an outdoor control sample as well. They discuss why the mold species matter, where to get tests (LisBiotech), and some other methods your IEP may use to test your home: spore traps/air sampling, tape lifts, swabs, bulk sampling, and cultures. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Timestamps00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:43 Why should you test your home?02:20 When should you test your home?04:09 Side note about testing for mold, actinos and endotoxins05:19 MSQPCR Dust Testing: ERMI, HERTSMI-208:26 How to interpret your ERMI or HERTSMI-2 results11:06 Where to get MSQPCR dust tests13:15 When should you hire an Indoor Environmental Professional (IEP)14:36 Other methods of testing: Air Sampling16:52 Tape Lift testing18:34 Swab testing19:09 Bulk Sampling21:31 Culturable testing23:21 Next Steps: vetting professional help25:48 Retest during and after remediation
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
HELPFUL LINKS:Order your dust testing: https://lisbiotech.com/Our interview with Bill Weber: https://youtu.be/RlKjTqVAeNU?si=9VZ4RnafI6Gx2QRpOur interview with Michael Schrantz: https://youtu.be/_BEwFVdpRcY?si=kmMrR9lPBgffrFNDThe CIRSx course for Medically Important Remediation: https://institute.cirsx.com/course/mir101
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.