The CIRS Group Podcast

Barbara and Jacie are back, this time to share Jacie’s personal health update while she deals with a CIRS relapse after moving into a new apartment. Jacie describes worsening histamine flares, a return of autoimmune symptoms like uveitis, and home testing that showed borderline endotoxins (100), and extremely high actinos (6 million). This prompted a small-particle cleaning and skin/environment retesting that suggested her boyfriend’s microbes were contributing. While waiting to see CIRS clinician Dr. Andrea Jordheim, Jacie used an AIP diet, curcumin, astaxanthin, acupuncture, and a vibration plate to feel better. She reviews her extensive testing results (GI, infections, metabolomics, sinus, spike protein), her boyfriend’s gut results (high Campylobacter, low Akkermansia), her dysbiotic gut findings and leaky-gut indicators, a very high spike protein result (23,000 vs 0.08), and next steps including fasting, nattokinase, quercetin, methylation and genetic testing. In her next update, she’ll share MARCoNS and water testing (for uranium) results. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:06 Surprise puppy Story02:20 Jacie's CIRS relapse03:27 Histamine flares and uveitis04:41 Home dust tests and skin tests to check for exposure06:22 Feel better while waiting for your doctor: nutrition and supplements07:44 Acupuncture and vibration plate09:54 Doctor appointment and labwork12:02 All the tests!14:29 Working with Dr. Andrea Jordheim15:55 Jacie's boyfriend's gut results16:50 Jacie's GI dysbiosis findings19:55 Spike protein test results and FLCCC protocol22:17 Remaining tests23:00 Concerning uranium levels in water24:07 Minerals and methylation26:16 Difficulty using carbs for fuel29:06 Celiac genes, staying gluten free31:46 High MPO may indicate endotoxins33:05 Hormones, methylation, and hydration34:38 Next testing, and supplements prioritized36:10 The importance of collaborative care with your doctor38:56 Wrap up
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:Work with Dr. Andrea Jordheim: https://mytransformationwellness.com/Our interview with Dr. Lacey Venanzi: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=2HQ43ju_lV7PwC3wCeliac blood test: https://www.rupahealth.com/lab-tests/cyrex-array-3x
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
 

In this final CIRSx 2026 recap, Jacie and Barbara cover the conference’s lifestyle-focused talks and share takeaways for listeners. They highlight Mike Pelletier's practical strategies to accelerate CIRS recovery, including prioritizing sleep (consistent bedtime/wake time, cool room, morning light, lowering bedroom CO2, reducing nocturia by shifting fluid intake earlier, and improving nasal breathing), plus frequent “exercise snacks,” movement, and whole-food nutrition. They discuss Lauren Loewenstein's talk on sharing CIRS stories via social media and how coaches can bridge patients, physicians, and remediation teams. They also cover Dr. Hamid's talk on acupuncture as an adjunct for anxiety and autonomic dysregulation, including self-regulation tools like breathing and HRV training. They summarize Dr. Craig Tanio’s Aventhea Trial emphasizing multi-root-cause precision medicine and prevention. Finally, they recap interior designer Kaleigh Concannon's talk on creating low-tox homes, noting challenges with foam/off-gassing in mattresses and couches and focusing on practical risk reduction over perfection. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Timestamps00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:40 Mike Pelletier's lifestyle tips03:54 Sleep Optimization Tips: sleep, sunlight, lower CO206:52 Mouth Taping Debate08:40 Exercise snacks, temperature, bedding, UV index, movement14:28 Lauren Lowenstein: leveraging social media to share your story18:44 Dr. Ilyas Hamid: acupuncture for nervous system regulation25:52 Dr. Craig Tanio's research on reversing neurodegeneration29:24 Kaleigh Concannon: low toxicity home design33:52 Final Thoughts
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:Reach out to Mike Pelletier to work with him: mike@thrivalhealth.comCollagen infused mouth tape: https://taped.co/products/mt?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23832672398&gbraid=0AAAABBabV6YK8NK1i2DgtSefZ-Zp7G17B&gclid=CjwKCAjwpqHTBhAcEiwAj2AfuhpIoyBoY6Nl5w2f6VNNrw8O9yqsQVCh0s3ogzbeuHjKseVQ-C83JhoCU1MQAvD_BwEWeird chin strap thing (may or may not work lol): https://www.amazon.com/facelift-compression-garment/s?k=facelift+compression+garmentLauren's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebiotoxinladyJacie's favorite Qi Gong video: https://youtu.be/onA4pogScVg?is=Shg-9oM-_C7onpwWDr. Ilyas Hamid's website: https://acuhollywood.com/Dr. Craig Tanio's website: https://www.rezilirhealth.com/doctors/craig-p-tanio/Sign up to Kaleigh's low tox newsletter: https://www.uniquelyyoudecor.com/newsletter
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie continue their CIRSx 2026 recap with the medical talks, emphasizing that the episode should not be considered medical advice and encouraging listeners to consult their own CIRS practitioners. They summarize Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker’s talk on “triple positives” on GENIE (AKT, RELA, tubulin) as an early risk pattern for neurodegeneration including Parkinson’s, highlighting the promise of early intervention. Dr. Lacey Venanzi focused on gut-driven inflammation in CIRS via LPS, dysbiosis, permeability tied to low MSH, and discussed preferred microbiome testing. Dr. Kellen Milani shared a stalking experience and the need for practitioner boundaries. Louise Carter reviewed GENIE/HLA patterns, suggesting CIRS subtypes and vascular dysregulation. Dr. Eric Dorninger covered step five of the Shoemaker Protocol: androgen correction, especially DHEA, plus additional testing options like DUTCH. Dr. Scott McMahon critiqued overly broad test interpretation. Dr. Oseni discussed pulmonary manifestations of CIRS and spirometry, noting TGF-beta1 and fibrosis. Dr. Peg DiTulio reviews MARCoNS treatment data, maintenance strategies to prevent recolonization, and when to consider ENT/dental issues. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:00 Dr. Shoemaker on Triple Positives03:34 Dr. Lacey Venanzi: Gut Endotoxins and Actinos10:03 Dr. Milani: her story of being stalked by a patient15:58 Louise Carder's talk on GENIE subtypes20:46 Dr. Eric Dorninger's hormone support talk24:52 Dr. Scott McMahon on proper medical terms32:18 Dr. Oseni on testing lung capacity35:57 Dr. Peg DiTullio: lessons from treating MARCoNs42:59 Wrap Up Next Episode
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
HELPFUL LINKS:Dr. Lacey Venanzi's website: https://www.drlacey.org/Our interview with Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=A4SrJ6tmY_zr1u53Dr. Lacey's new podcast with Dr. Christian: https://www.coherencedx.com/Dr. Kellyn Milani's website: https://remedynaturalhealth.com/Louise Carder's website (for UK based patients): https://www.colabeu.com/Dr. Eric Dorninger's website: https://drdorninger.com/Our interview with Dr. Anjali Noble about hormones and menopause: https://youtu.be/OStNHRNffqw?si=PUfXfmfcAoVbvFR1Our episode on urinary mycotoxin tests: https://youtu.be/qWIIBaMybFA?si=5yoXqYTGvDSC6YG6Our interview with Dr. Peg re: tick borne illness: https://youtu.be/czSjykCdOR4?si=P-oePTLGCG-ujip6Dr. Peg DiTulio's website: https://regenixhealing.com/Our episode all about MARCoNs: https://youtu.be/wOSmKcZr06s?si=7s7wJKQQa7EidDel
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie kick off their annual CIRSx 2026 Conference recap series, focusing this episode on remediation and environmental talks, with a reminder to consult an indoor environmental professional (IEP) for climate-specific guidance. They summarize key presentations: Bill Weber and Christine Semabeu on prevention-first building and homeowner maintenance (leak management, access panels, alarms, early mechanical planning, and the book “Mold Controlled” by John Banta); contractor Brian Tinker on why building code isn’t sufficient for “medically clean homes,” the need to budget for mold-safer materials, identify dust reservoirs, and validate with testing throughout construction; forensic engineer Joe Lstiburek’s moisture-management building science emphasizing drying potential and prioritizing people/building health over energy efficiency; Air Oasis updates including a planned 2027 model with requested features and current 2.0 model features; Max McCord on using thermal imaging to find hidden moisture; Osman Zelaya on making inspection reports function like construction blueprints through clearer communication; and Jack Getz’s case study building an 800 sq ft CIRS-friendly home over a garage with detailed design choices and costs. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro and disclaimer01:40 Bill Weber and Christine Cimabue: Prevention is better than remediation07:00 Brian Tinker: building beyond code12:03 Joseph Lstiburek - Building Science Masterclass: Don't do stupid things16:07 Brad Baxter, COO of Air Oasis: new model in 202721:17 Max McCord: finding hidden moisture24:51 Osmin Zelaya: better inspection reports - better communication28:06 CIRS Friendly Home Case Study35:09 Key Takeaways and Wrap Up
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS:Bill Weber's website: https://avelar.net/articles_publications/team/bill-weber/Christine Cimabue's website: https://byholistichomes.com/John Banta's book, Mold Controlled: https://www.johncbanta.com/publicationsBrian Tinker's website: https://breathewellhomes.com/Joseph Lstiburek's website: https://buildingscience.com/users/jlstiburekAir Oasis air filters: https://www.airoasis.com/Max McCord's website: https://www.stonecrest.team/Osmin Zelaya's website: https://medviro.com/LeadershipJohn Goetz's recommendation for people interested in building their own CIRS safe home: https://buildshownetwork.com/ 
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie share “hot takes” after CIRSx 2026 in Fort Lauderdale. Barbara attended in person and Jacie watched virtually. They discuss feeling “weird vibes” and a more corporate yet conflicted identity, with misalignment about whether the conference is for providers, patients, or remediators, and concerns about limited innovation within the Shoemaker community. They encourage practitioners to seek innovation through CIRS Lab and mention Dr. Lacey Venanzi and Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres’ work. They highlight standout talks from Brian Tinker on safe homes, Dr. Venanzi on endotoxemia/actinos in the gut, Mike Pelletier on patient lifestyle changes, Dr. Kellyn Milani on being stalked by a patient, Louise Carter on GENIE patterns, Jack Goetz on building a CIRS-conscious home, and Kayleigh Concannon on low-tox furnishings, while noting many other talks felt unhelpful and lacking actionable takeaways.
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro: CIRSx01:11 Hot Takes explained03:25 Medical Disclaimer03:48 Weird Conference Vibes06:30 Who is CIRSx for?07:57 Innovation beyond Shoemaker10:56 Gatekeeping and publishing pressure14:53 Tell me why I'm watching this18:22 Standout talks and teasers30:00 Up next!
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:If you're a health coach or practitioner in the CIRS space, join the practitioner membership at https://www.cirslab.com/Our recent episode with Dr. Christian and Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/7H6CKEhIMSU?si=Dr18_Gg8fpZfkKshDr. Christian and Dr. Lacey's new podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@CoherenceDX
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this The CIRS Group Podcast episode, Jacie and Barbara explain MARCoNS (multiple antibiotic resistant coagulase-negative staphylococci) as a common deep nasal colonization in CIRS patients and why it’s addressed as step three in the Shoemaker Protocol (after leaving exposure and using binders). They discuss how MARCoNS may perpetuate inflammation and low MSH, what symptoms can look like, and how to test via a deep nasal swab (ordered from MicrobiologyDX). They review Shoemaker-style treatments such as EDTA with silver, BEG spray, plus alternatives like xylitol sprays, ozone, red light therapy, and propolis sprays, along with titration and irritation considerations. They also cover why MARCoNS can recur (ongoing exposure, incomplete eradication, pets, personal items), debate whether MARCoNS is cause vs result, and mention broader nasal testing (MicroGenDX Sinus Key) and evolving approaches beyond the patented Shoemaker Protocol. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro01:31 What MARCoNS Means02:41 Colonization vs Infection03:30 Why you should care about MARCoNs05:56 MARCoNs Symptoms09:29 Timing your treatment for MARCoNs10:41 Testing technique14:32 How to understand your test results15:55 Shoemaker-endorsed treatment for MARCoNs20:37 Other options for treatment28:58 Why do MARCoNs take hold, and why does it keep it from coming back32:11 Do MARCoNS really matter?34:49 Beyond MARCoNS sinus testing36:40 The next frontier of sinus testing and treatment
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Order your own MARCoNs test: https://www.microbiologydx.com/order-collection-kitsOur interview with Dr. Andrew Heyman: https://youtu.be/WwTRQTuUeC8?si=3HfIk0fE7OCCygj6The CIRS Summit (to view Christian's talk on nasal treatments): https://cirs-summit-2025.heysummit.com/talks/how-the-latest-nasal-swab-testing-can-help-you-heal/Order your own SinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskey
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

On this episode of The CIRS Group podcast, hosts Jacie and Barbara interview Dr. Andrew Heyman about Dr. Naviaux’s cell danger response (CDR) framework and why it can explain stalled recoveries in chronic mold-related illness and CIRS. Heyman describes how mitochondrial “danger mode” drives three phases: initial inflammation (innate immune activation), rebuilding via aerobic glycolysis, and reintegration requiring “all clear” signals like VIP, which positions CIRS as a subset of CDR. He emphasizes total toxic load (mold/biotoxins plus chemicals, metals, infections, gut-derived endotoxins, physical trauma, and emotional trauma), and discusses the neuroendocrine-immune axis (VIP, MSH, PACAP) and autonomic/vagal tone as key to recovery. He outlines his BeyondMold.com five-phase clinical program: environment/binders and chemical detox support, pathogen work, gut optimization, metabolic/hormone rebuilding with nervous system support, and a final readiness-to-heal/phenotyping phase using targeted safety signals (including VIP forms).
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Intro to Dr. Andrew Heyman02:38 What Is Cell Danger Response?06:38 CIRS in the context of Cell Danger Response: changing gene expression12:18 The role of total toxic load and co-infections16:52 How the nervous system is affected by Cell Danger Response22:27 Why having a solid practitioner in your corner is so important23:56 The limitations of CIRS diagnostic testing28:47 Beyond Mold framework for healing in five phases37:18 Are you ready to heal?46:16 Advice for stalled patients51:14 How to work with Dr. Heyman and Beyond Mold
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
WORK WITH DR. HEYMAN: https://beyondmold.com/Dr. Heyman Q&A mentioned in the outro: https://www.youtube.com/live/EWoki09eHhk
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie wrap up their five-part Shoemaker Protocol series with Phase 5: Repair and Restore. This phase focuses on normalizing innate immune markers (MMP-9, C3a, C4a, and TGFb1) and restoring brain volume. They explain that low-starch/gluten-free diet helps bring down MMP-9, while persistently elevated C3a/C4a or TGFb1 often signal ongoing exposure, gut issues, tick-borne illness, or dental cavitations. The episode culminates with VIP (vasoactive intestinal peptide) nasal spray (the most anticipated step of the entire protocol!) which supports anti-inflammatory pathways, neurological function, and brain volume restoration over 6–12 months.
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction: Phase Five01:24 Medical Disclaimer01:55 Innate Immune Markers and VIP Nasal Spray02:50 Understanding MMP-905:14 C3a and C4a Markers07:20 TGFb108:18 VIP Spray Treatment10:34 Closing Thoughts
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this CIRS Group Podcast episode, Jacie and Barbara cover phase four of the Shoemaker Protocol, focused on restoring normal metabolic function after biotoxin elimination. They explain that this phase may include supporting detox pathways for “normal” toxins and heavy metals (e.g., daily bowel movements, B vitamins, methylation support, sauna or hot baths, lymphatic techniques, and using binders like charcoal or clay for inorganic toxins), addressing androgen/sex hormone imbalance linked to low MSH (including signs of low testosterone or estrogen dominance, supplementing DHEA), and correcting fluid/electrolyte balance via ADH regulation (symptoms like thirst, frequent urination, nocturia, and static shocks). They discuss electrolyte options, a DIY recipe, and provider-monitored desmopressin if needed, and note this phase can also involve investigating other lingering issues or co-infections before moving to phase five. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 Welcome to Phase Four01:00 The purpose of repairing damage done by CIRS03:14 Detox Pathways basics05:33 Binders for heavy metals07:05 Androgen & hormone balance09:40 Fluid and Electrolyte Issues: ADH/Osmolality12:21 Electrolyte options14:12 Desmopressin reset explained15:41 Tidying up and co-infections17:22 Next Phase and wrap up
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Electrolyte caps Barbara uses: https://redmond.life/products/re-lyte-hydration-support-plus-capsLMNT Recipe (check FAQ): https://drinklmnt.com/pages/ingredients
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Struggling with stubborn biotoxin illness (CIRS) and feeling stuck in your recovery? In this episode, we break down some of the most important (and often overlooked) steps in the Shoemaker Protocol, including binders, MARCoNS treatment, and gut support. Learn how binders like cholestyramine and Welchol work differently to remove biotoxins, why the wrong detox approach can trigger setbacks, and how to track your progress with tools like the Visual Contrast Sensitivity (VCS) test. We also dive into MARCoNS: why it's so common in CIRS patients, how it impacts MSH and overall health, and the treatment options available, from prescription nasal sprays to over-the-counter approaches. Plus, we discuss biofilms, reinfection risks, pet testing, and practical strategies for breaking the cycle. Whether you're just getting started or looking to optimize your treatment plan, this episode will help you better understand the next critical steps in recovering from CIRS and mold-related illness. None of this is medical advice: always consult your CIRS practitioner for what treatment is right for you.
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Introduction & Recap02:54 - Why phase three is the most anticipated part of recovery03:26 - The most effective binders for detoxification: Cholestyramine and Welchol06:00 - Over-the-counter binder options: Mycobind and Chitosan07:05 - The importance of using the correctly charged binders09:21 - Visual Contrast Sensitivity test: tracking biotoxin effects13:00 - Treating MARCoNs: nasal testing, nasal sprays, and herbal options14:15 - Cycle of MARCoNs and MSH depletion16:19 - Nasal testing resources and nasal spray treatments (EDTA, BEG spray, X Lear)17:35 - Testing the nasal biome with Sinus Key19:14 - Impact of diet, microbiome, and specific food sensitivities on gut healing25:14 - Supporting detox through bowel movements with magnesium26:26 - The importance of sequencing treatment steps for optimum results27:23 - Encouragement to stay on track, subscribe, and support the channel
For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com
LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Our Binders episode: https://youtu.be/KAQfLXuPjFI?si=TcJo-YDEjVLNInqWVisual Contrast Sensitivity (VCS) test options:https://www.vcstest.com/https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screeninghttps://beyondmold.com/product/visual-contrast-sensitivity-test/MARCoNs test: https://www.microbiologydx.com/order-collection-kitsSinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskeyActinos episode where we reference the SinusKey: https://youtu.be/2rCXhUP6dbY?si=MBT7_esd0edmfhCXDr. Christian Navarro Torres' website to book a consult: https://www.cirslab.com/Dr. Andrea Jordheim's website to work with her: https://mytransformationwellness.com/Our interview with Dr. Lacey Venanzi: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=wExZGivhkEALSR4OOur second interview with Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/7H6CKEhIMSU?si=WrMPttnfyRq2aMvCDr. Lacey's website to work with her: https://www.drlacey.org/
Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs
The CIRS Group:Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/
Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet!  https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivoryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivoryBlog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/
Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara
Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.