The CIRS Group Podcast

Don’t do it alone! Major benefits from joining a community when healing from CIRS or chronic illness

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
CIRS, or Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome, aka Mold Illness, can be hard to deal with. This is true for any chronic or autoimmune based illness. But you don’t need to do it alone! Today we’re talking about the benefits of community: connection, safe space to speak freely, advice and suggestions, direction towards resources - so many things!
Over at the CIRS Group, we are planning on adding quite a bit of awesome this month:- Not one, but TWO group calls per month- A monthly live class + Q&A on an aspect of CIRS (recording and replay available to members only)- Additional new content - extended interviews and more controversial topics not safe for YouTube or Instagram
We definitely think you should join us. That said, we’re not the only group in town - we talk about a couple of our favorites and encourage you to find the one that is right for you (or two, or three!). Helpful links below. For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:0:00 Intro0:31 Loneliness as an indicator for health decline1:23 The ease of communication with people who get it4:00 Using others’ anecdotal stories for your own benefit5:10 Finding hope in others’ stories of healing6:22 The CIRS Group now offers classes7:00 Other benefits: Questions, sharing wins, group calls, resources7:54 Find a community that resonates with you, mix and match flavors10:05 Nutrition with Judy, Judy Cho’s CIRS Support Group13:38 Jenny Johnson’s CIRS Support Group16:22 Some doctors have groups too17:01 Let us know our ice cream flavors
Join Barbara and Jacie’s TheCIRSGroup.com support group:https://www.thecirsgroup.com/Join the NutritionwithJudy.com CIRS support group: https://www.nutritionwithjudy.com/shopping/nwj-client/cirs-group-supportJoin Jenny Johnson’s CIRS Healing Collective support group:https://simplifiedwellnessdesigns.com/cirs-healing-collectiveOr Jenny's 12 week program:https://simplifiedwellnessdesigns.com/equipped-to-overcome-cirs
Jacie is a 4 year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 3 year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

CIRS Fest 2023! All the exciting details with special guest, singer-songwriter Olivia Farabaugh

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
Today we’re talking with Olivia Farabaugh about CIRS Fest 2023, her journey with Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome, aka Mold Illness, the CIRS Support Fund she co-founded with Malachi’s Message. Lots of great links below, please check them out to support Olivia’s amazing work.
 
CIRS Fest 2023 is on October 29th at 12:30pm in Dallastown, PA. Tickets are only $5! https://malachismessage.org/cirs-fest-2023/ for more info.
TIME STAMPS:0:00 Intro1:04 Why Olivia started the CIRS Support Fund3:52 CIRS Fest 2023 info5:37 Hope Lives Here7:05 The diagnosis is a path forward8:30 The CIRS Support Fund Mission9:50 How to support the CIRS Support Fund11:00 How to support CIRS Fest 202312:38 Olivia’s music and mission15:55 How Olivia helped Jacie and Barbara17:25 The Silver Lining of CIRS19:10 How to follow Olivia Farabaugh
HELPFUL LINKS:Donate to the CIRS Support Fund: https://malachismessage.org/cirs-support-fund/CIRS Fest 2023: https://malachismessage.org/cirs-fest-2023/Olivia’s website: https://oliviafarabaugh.com/Follow Olivia on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oliviafarabaughofficialFollow Olivia on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/FarabaughmusicFollow Olivia on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@oliviafarabaughOlivia’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@OliviaFarabaughLearn about Olivia’s health journey on the Nutrition with Judy podcast: https://youtu.be/Y5Be4DgmMDI?si=atoCS3gGrs-gYvy6
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Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

CIRS on a budget! Heal from mold illness, Lyme, and long COVID - with special guest Dr. Alan Gruning

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
Today we’re very excited to have Dr. Alan Gruning on our podcast. We get to ask him some follow ups to his interview with Judy Cho (see links below to watch that interview), and dig deeper on his recommendations for doing the Shoemaker Protocol on a budget. For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:00:00 Intro01:49 Where to find Dr. Gruning04:25 Remediation on a budget10:31 Finding/creating a safe space to live19:30 Lyme and Long Covid protocol24:00 Fixing issues adjacent to CIRS26:30 CIRS, trauma, and total mind-body healing28:34 Treating CIRS on a budget - bloodwork and binders32:57 VIP on a budget and alternatives37:05 Dr. Gruning's CIRS charity work and Christian CIRS Network
Dr. Gruning’s wonderful interview with Nutrition with Judy: https://youtu.be/28_b7nLwX4U?si=9gadY-Y8AHx5aYkWDr. Gruning’s website: https://fibromyalgiafoprtmyers.comHis free clinic site where you can donate: https://christianmedicalministries.orgThe Christian CIRS Network: https://cirsnetwork.com
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

The Shoemaker Protocol - Heal from chronic illness! CIRSx Recap

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
Today we’re doing one more CIRSx recap, and this time we are covering the Shoemaker Protocol - the only treatment clinically proven to heal Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome, or CIRS. We heard some fantastic talks on this topic, and we’re excited to share. For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:00:00 Intro01:09 Screening for CIRS - Dr. Eric Dorninger, ND, LAc 07:00 The Anti-Inflammatory Benefit of the Carnivore Diet - Judy Cho12:50 The Immunomodulatory Effects of Camel Milk for CIRS Patients with ASD - Jodie Dashore, PhD, OTD, MSc14:56 Coagulation CIRS and GENIE - James Ryan, PhD18:32 Understanding Immune Response Genetics - An HLA Deeper Dive - Scott McMahon, MD21:49 Osteopathy as an Adjunct Therapy for Those with CIRS - April Vukelic, DO, IFMCP26:18 TheCIRSGroup.com
Helpful links:Dr. Eric Dorninger’s website: https://drdorninger.com/Judy Cho’s website: https://www.nutritionwithjudy.com/Dr. Jodie Dashore’s website: https://bionexushealth.com/Dr. Jim Ryan’s website: https://www.progenedx.com/Dr. Scott McMahon’s website: https://oasisnm.com/Dr. April Vukelic’s website: https://www.recoverfrommold.com/Find an osteopath: https://www.academyofosteopathy.org/find-omm#/The Art and Science of CIRS: https://a.co/d/5unsa7XPhysician’s guide to understanding and treating biotoxin illness: https://www.survivingmold.com/legal-resources/works-citing-dr.-shoemaker/a-physicians-guide-to-biotoxin-illness
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

Is your home safe? How to find or build a safe place to live when you have CIRS - CIRSx Recap

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.comWe are continuing our CIRSx conference recap today, this time specifically deep diving on all the talks given around remediation! Remaining in exposure is one of the biggest hurdles for people trying to heal from CIRS when caused by mold, so today we cover some great tips and details we learned at CIRSx from the experts. For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:00:00 Intro01:09 Why Buildings Fail to Protect Our Health by Paula Baker LaPorte01:30 Effect of codes, regulations and US home building practices 02:28 Three major causes for issues in the home03:38 Six reasons homes are mold-prone04:38 Four major sources of mold06:55 The southeast US is challenging, but no place is perfect07:50 Protocol for home building09:38 How to mitigate mold during the build process12:00 Plumbing damage prevention13:45 Features to include in your home build14:37 Building biology - impact on mental health17:17 My Very Own Sirewall by Ming Dooley17:55 DIY vs Hiring help20:04 Benefits of sirewall as a building material20:51 House Hunting with CIRS Jennifer Schrantz 22:05 Tucson love23:10 Jennifer is a resource for references for CIRS-conscious realtors23:33 Inspections25:55 How to refine your home search27:35 Rapid fire tips for your home search31:18 How to find a great realtor32:00 Outro
Our CIRSx recap part one:https://youtu.be/-Dv1e_4Cm0Q?si=UbJnxulDfKYa9BUhPart two:https://youtu.be/vQdkxCV1FNs?si=ArSwefv8pqMKyPIyCIRSx recap on remediation:https://youtu.be/mREuhpzHUV4?si=C5pnERIgQxE1TUFrPrescriptions for a Healthy House, 4th Edition: A Practical Guide for Architects, Builders and Homeowners by Paula Baker-Laporte, John C Banta: https://a.co/d/45updCmExample of a water leak detector (w/wifi): https://a.co/d/gKlBEJcExample of a water shut off valve (w/wifi): https://a.co/d/cAY2sDIExample of a water heater drain pan: https://a.co/d/ejDpJGvExample of a dishwasher appliance liner: https://a.co/d/gyJjFf2Example of under sink liner: https://a.co/d/jbcxHZkMing Dooley on SurvivingMold.com: https://www.survivingmold.com/legal-resources/physician-referral-information/dr-ming-dooleySirewall: https://sirewall.com/Jennifer Schrantz’ website: http://jennifertucson.com/IEP Radio: Episode 25, Buying a Home with Jennifer Schrantz: https://youtu.be/9B-rmeZH2Ws?si=4Uc1HNrXpf8Z_OOjEpisode 9, Home Inspection Basics and things to consider when renting with Dr. Eric Dorninger: https://youtu.be/F1TCRQEYajs?si=jV251Go_3OnE6RPk
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

Remediation, mold cleaning, actinos testing, and more! CIRSx Recap - Mold Illness and CIRS

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
We are continuing our CIRSx conference recap today, this time specifically deep diving on all the talks given around remediation! Remaining in exposure is one of the biggest hurdles for people trying to heal from CIRS when caused by mold, so today we cover some great tips and details we learned at CIRSx from the experts. For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:00:00 Intro   02:21 A protocol for remediation: CIRSx Work Plan: Cindy Edwards3:20 Case study of how remediation can go poorly and how to do it right5:40 Steps of Cindy’s protocol7:58 Why cutting corners may not be the right move10:06 NextGen Sequencing: More than Actinos: David Lark10:39 Why actinos cleaning is a good idea13:26 GENIE Test14:32 Slaying Water Damage Dragons - A Patient Experience with WDB: Chris Foth and Aaron Pettigrew15:20 Why project managers may be needed for CIRS treatment16:34 In Pursuit of Underlying Causes of Contaminated Buildings: Brandon Apple18:46 Why remediation is an investigation19:35 Why you shouldn’t just rely on ERMI or HERTSMI-2 scores21:23  Using Peptide Bonds and Proteins to Monitor Cleanliness: John Banta23:06 Even Holy Water Supports Mold: Michael Schrantz and Bill Weber25:00 IEPs: Columbo for water28:50 Dust Mites: So Uncontroversial, it's Mostly Forgotten Carl Grimes31:27 Historical vs Modern Dust Greg Weatherman32:50 Controversy over horizontal or vertical collection for testing33:54 Barbara's Remediation Takeaways: Rot vs decay for insurance34:52 OSB sucks, Plywood is better35:27 Stone materials need to weep36:16 Endotoxins: homesteading is a risk37:05 Clean, clean, clean and clean some more
Mold Illness: Surviving and Thriving by Cindy Edwards, et al.: https://a.co/d/5MHn4PN or official website: http://survivingandthrivingbook.com/Info on the GENIE test: https://www.progenedx.com/how-does-this-helpPlaces to look for an IEP, though these certs do not guarantee their aptitude:International Society for Environmentally Acquired Illness: https://iseai.org/American Council for Accredited Certification: https://www.acac.org/Brandon Apple’s website: https://www.moldsci.com/John Banta’s website: https://www.johncbanta.com/Michael Schrantz’s website: https://environmentalanalytics.net/about-us/Bill Weber’s contact info: https://avelar.net/articles_publications/team/bill-weber/Carl Grimes’ published research on dust mites: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24267359/Greg Weatherman’s website: http://www.aerobiological.com/
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

CIRSx Recap - Part Two! Gossip, silliness, and serious healing - TheCIRSGroup.com

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
We attended CIRSx 2023 and learned a ton of new info and are bringing you the highlights today! We had to split up the whole CIRSx weekend into two parts, and here is part two! For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
 
TIME STAMPS:00:00 Intro00:58 Even Holy Water Supports Mold - Mike Schrantz and Bill Weber03:13 Erythromelalgia and Peripheral Hypoperfusion - Dr. Lysander Jim04:04 Stop Coronary Disease: Live Longer, Live Better - Dr. Bill Blanchett05:26 Dust Mites: So Uncontroversial It's Almost Forgotten - Carl Grimes07:03 Cyanobacterial Toxins as a Risk Factor for Neurodegeneration - Dr. Elijah Stommel08:18 Coagulation and GENIE - Dr. James Ryan09:24 Foundations Training with Jesse Salas and Dr. Goodman 10:51 Understanding Immune Response Genetics: Deeper Dive into HLA - Dr. Scott McMahon11:52 Historical vs Modern Dust - Greg Weatherman12:35 Osteopathy as an Adjunct Therapy for Those with CIRS - Dr. April Vukelic14:42 Holy Water Pt 2 - Mike Schrantz and Bill Weber15:10 House Hunting with CIRS - Jennifer Schrantz17:09 Benzo Induced Neurologic Dysfunction - Dr. Christy Huff19:21 Outro
CIRSx website: https://www.cirsx.com/2023-cirsx-annual-conference
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

Did you miss out on CIRSx? No problem! Here’s our Recap - Part One! TheCIRSGroup.com

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
We attended CIRSx 2023 and learned a ton of new info and are bringing you the highlights today! We had to split up the whole CIRSx weekend into two parts, so here is part one!  For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:00:00 Intro00:30 CIRSx overall impressions04:00 Screening for CIRS  - Dr. Eric Dorninger07:05 Why Buildings Fail to Protect our Health - Paula Baker La Porte08:17 My Very Own Sirewall - Ming Dooley10:19 CIRSx Workplan - Cindy Edwards11:43 The Anti-Inflammatory Benefit of the Carnivore Diet - Judy Cho13:45 NextGen Sequencing: More than Actinos - David Lark16:45 The Immunomodulatory Effects of Camel Milk for CIRS Patients with ASD - Dr. Jodie Dashore19:30 New Neurological Applications of GENIE, Neuroquant, and ALS - Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker20:25 An Integrative Approach to Parkinson's - Dr. Laurie Mischley24:38 Slaying Water Damage Dragons: A Patient Experience - Chris Foth and Aaron Pettigrew27:30 In Pursuit of Underlying Causes of Contaminated Buildings - Brandon Apple29:40 Using Peptide Bonds and Proteins to Monitor Cleanliness - John Banta30:31 Join us next week for Part 2!
CIRSx website: https://www.cirsx.com/2023-cirsx-annual-conference
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

Dogs can get mold illness? Pets with chronic pain and infections could be suffering from CIRS

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
Today we’re talking about CIRS and pets! Specifically, dogs and horses, and why this might affect you as a human with CIRS. This is a topic that’s near and dear to our hearts because Barbara’s dog, Rosie Cotton, very likely suffers with CIRS, or at least staph infections (MARCoNs). For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:0:00 Intro0:48 Disclaimer: there’s not much info out there1:05 Barbara’s experience with vets and CIRS2:19 Horses and CIRS and Uveitis3:33 Staph Infections, or MARCoNs, and dogs5:05 Why you need to clear MARCoNs5:26 Conditions of Dogs more likely to have staph colonies6:17 What are actinos or actinomycetes?7:14 25% of humans in the study had staph8:09 Study on dogs with cholestyramine9:05 Why vet intervention may be important, even for humans9:27 Things you can do to minimize exposure with pets11:48 Join us at TheCIRSGroup.com
The study re: dogs, staph, and their owners: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870875/
Our podcast episode on actinos: https://youtu.be/q-KW5ZXUHVM
Study re: dogs and cholestyramine: https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-021-00099-x
ASPCA info on using cholestyramine for dogs: https://www.aspcapro.org/resource/what-know-about-cholestyramine-resin-and-pets
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok

Weird symptoms? Don’t ignore them, they might be CIRS or Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome

For more information, visit https://thecirsgroup.com
Today we’re talking about signs you might have CIRS. 1 in 4 people - that’s 25% of the population! - are genetically predisposed to having CIRS, or chronic inflammatory response syndrome, which means they are unable to process biotoxins out of their body if/when they encounter those biotoxins. Today we dig into some weird, random symptoms you might have that could point you towards CIRS as your path to root cause healing. For more information, visit TheCIRSGroup.com
TIME STAMPS:0:00 Intro0:26 Why we think you should look into CIRS2:37 Resources if you think you might have CIRS2:53 Frequent headaches/migraines3:30 Genetic issues - “it runs in my family!”4:00 Excessive static shocks4:25 Frequent urination, excessive thirst5:01 Plantar Fasciitis6:30 When carnivore is a bandaid7:37 OCD, depression, anxiety8:15 Hair loss8:50 Muscle Cramps, electrolyte imbalances9:40 Night sweats, dizziness, POTS10:31 Forgetting why you walked into a room11:07 Struggling to read12:29 Histamine reactions, Mast Cell Activation Syndrome13:05 Carnivoring harder13:51 Pregnancy loss, severe PMS and menopause symptoms15:57 Endometriosis, autoimmune conditions: Crohn's, Hashimoto's, Ulcerative Colitis, Lupus, Psoriasis, Celiac18:28 Maybe she’s born with it, maybe its biotoxins19:10 Remove yourself from exposure and see how you feel20:06 Look into it, why not?21:49 Biohacking your way to wellness, closet full of supplements23:10 Join us at TheCIRSGroup.com
Our Instagram post about the symptom clusters: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs1T3U9tXQU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==VCS test: https://www.vcstest.com/Bloodwork: https://www.nutritionwithjudy.com/shopping/lab-work/mini-chronic-inflammatory-response-syndrome-cirs-testingOur episode with Christian re: the Neuroquant and how CIRS affects the brain: https://youtu.be/aQyU51D7O-c
Jacie is a 3.5+ year carnivore, certified nutrition coach, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a coach, facilitator, speaker, 2.5+ year carnivore, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.
Catch Jacie and Barbara on Judy Cho's podcast to learn more about their health journeys and why they started The CIRS Group: When Carnivores are Affected by Mold Illness - Jacie Gregory & Barbara Williams - https://youtu.be/CR8Uj-d_fok